Erick Quintero: VDSML Member Profile

In this episode, I'm joined by Erick Quintero to trace his incredible journey from Nicaragua, to California, into the U.S. Marine Corps as an Anti-tank Assaultman/Machine Gunner, and onward into data science! Erick and I also chat in-depth about the challenges some combat veterans in the datasphere face related to Post-traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD). Erick provides examples of healthy techniques to manage those challenges and live your best life!

FEATURED GUEST:

Name: Erick Quintero

Email: erick.quintero@pepperdine.edu

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erick-quintero-semper-fi/

SUPPORT THE DATA CANTEEN (LIKE PBS, WE'RE LISTENER SUPPORTED!):

Donate: https://vetsindatascience.com/support-join

EPISODE LINKS:

Pepperdine University's MSBA: https://bschool.pepperdine.edu/masters-degree/business-analytics/

Pepperdine University's Online MSBA: https://onlinegrad.pepperdine.edu/business/online-masters-in-business-analytics/

UC Irvine's Machine and Deep Learning Certificate Program: https://ce.uci.edu/areas/it/machine_learning/

Vets in Tech (veteran-focused non-profit): https://vetsintech.co/

Competing on Analytics (book): https://tinyurl.com/545dkkfc

The Signal and the Noise (book): https://tinyurl.com/k8fwjrvk

Data Science for Business (book): https://tinyurl.com/37axyvmu

Talk Python to Me (podcast): https://talkpython.fm/

The Super Data Science Podcast: https://www.superdatascience.com/podcast

Scatter Podcast: https://javorraca.github.io/Home/pages/podcast.html

PODCAST INFO:

Host: Ted Hallum

Website: https://vetsindatascience.com/thedatacanteen

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-data-canteen/id1551751086

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaNx9aLFRy1h9P22hd8ZPyw

Stitcher: https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-data-canteen

CONTACT THE DATA CANTEEN:

Voicemail: https://www.speakpipe.com/datacanteen

VETERANS IN DATA SCIENCE AND MACHINE LEARNING:

Website: https://vetsindatascience.com/

Join the Community: https://vetsindatascience.com/support-join

OUTLINE:

00:00:00​ - Introduction

00:02:54 – Erick's story from the beginning

00:09:26 – Erick's experience with Pepperdine University's MSBA

00:13:58 – What is PTSD?

00:19:55 – Erick's personal battle with PTSD

00:36:19 – Do you recover from PTSD or manage it?

00:46:15 – Examples of some healthy techniques for managing PTSD

00:55:55 - How to pursue a formal diagnosis if you suspect that you suffer from PTSD

01:01:05 – PTSD treatment plans are personalized, flexible, and outcome oriented

01:04:19 – What if your VA claim gets bogged down with red tape? 

01:08:33 – Vets in Tech: Good at finding positions for vets who're breaking into industry

01:13:18 – Tech that gets Erick excited

01:16:37 – Erick's favorite data-related podcasts and books

01:19:05 – UC Irvine's Machine and Deep Learning Certificate Program

01:22:55 – Erick's preferred means of contact

1:24:22 – Farewells

Transcript

DISCLAIMER: This is a direct, machine-generated transcript of the podcast audio and may not be grammatically correct.

[00:00:07] Ted Hallum: Welcome to the data, canteen, a podcast focused on the care and feeding of data scientists and machine learning engineers who share in the common bond of us military service. I'm your host, Ted Allen. Today I'm joined by Eric Quintero. Eric is a prior service Marine. Senior software analyst for enterprise holdings is currently finishing up his masters in business analytics at the university of.

Today, we talk about how Eric's journey led him from Nicaragua to California, then into the Marine Corps and over into the field of data science. Eric also shares about his personal experience, learning to manage post-traumatic stress disorder in a healthy way. Finally, if you think you might suffer from PTSD, Eric shares some tools and techniques that were helpful in his experience and how you can seek additional help to the department of veterans affairs Opie find the conversation as informative that.

Eric. Welcome to the data canteen.

[00:00:59] Erick Quintero: Thank you, Dan. I'm very, very excited to be here.

[00:01:02] Ted Hallum: So Eric just sort of set the stage for this episode. We invite a lot of guests here on the day to canteen to talk about learning opportunities, career opportunities, the hiring process, and the idea behind that is we want to see veterans in the data space achieving their very best, but you reached out to me a couple of months ago and you highlighted something that I thought was a profound truth.

And you said that it doesn't matter how educated you are or. How much money you make or how much you enjoy your job, you can't live your best life if you're not healthy. And of course, you know, healthiness is a multifaceted thing. There's emotional healthiness, there's physical healthiness, there's mental healthiness.

But you reached out to me for a specific reason. And that's because there's a burden that our combat veterans carry disproportionately and it negatively impacts all those aspects of our healthiness that we just talked about. And that disproportionate burden is post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD.

And Eric, I'm super grateful to you for being, not just being willing, but you took the initiative and you reached out to me and you said, I want to come on the data canteen. And I want to tell my story and talk about my personal experience as a veteran in the data sphere who understands what it means to grapple with PTSD.

So that's where we're going in this episode. Before we do, you know, Eric, I looked over your bio and you don't just have a fascinating data science story. You've got a fascinating life journey to tell. So to get things going, I I'd love it. If you'd tell us a little bit about where you're from your interests when you're growing up, if you were into stem and math, or maybe not so much, and then curious through your military education and career progression.

[00:02:54] Erick Quintero: Great. Well, again, I'm, I'm very excited to be here. So I grew up in Managua Nicaragua that when I went to the Capitol of the country, the crab in central America has the accident. I love the idea of the wind science, but I didn't quite care for the part of learning math to do science. Quite honestly, I wasn't good at math, but it wasn't great.

I was an okay student, but I wasn't outside. And that carry out from the whole high school, especially when I discovered girls. So I wanted to go into the business world as I was growing up. But a business degree actually looked too generic for me. So I had, I had learned about industrial engineers and they were sought after in the business world because they could actually translate business problems into mathematical equations that could actually provide, I don't know, some creative solution to those problems, those problems.

So that was about eight shows. I decided to become an engineer, not for the sake of being an engineer, but actually as a venue to go into the business fear. As far as math again, I was doing okay, what I did hate, and these are something that actually now became my bread and butter. So I became a data.

Scientist was statistics. I hate it stuck the stakes. They didn't make sense to me. It wasn't like math where you had, you develop your own equation or, you know, in multilevel integrals, you know, you always are able to come to a creative answer. These were like specific set rules in my mind. And what's the purpose of calculating all those decimal points.

You know, I didn't quite understand why do we need to get all these little numbers? I didn't even amount to one. And that he was through such a tedious process because everything was done by hand. So it wasn't until somebody explained to me later on that those decimals were actually percentage. So probably give yourself an event occurring.

That actually makes sense. And I got totally hooked on it. So it took a while for me to actually start realizing that I actually did like math and I actually did like science, but none of these happened while I was studying engineering. So that's, that's where I was raised. That's how I started studying.

But then in September, 2000, and in the year 2000, I moved to California and I couldn't find a job in my, in my field. And then I was told that actually my degree was not recognized in the U S so I had to start over. So I actually enrolled in night school classes at community college. And while I was working as a supervisor for a company that caters food into airplanes, I mean, adding international airport, it sounds like California.

And then that's when nine 11 happened, you know, just a year after I had been in California, we ha we had the attacks and I was just, I had just gotten married. I got married in August of 2001, and then September, 2001 happened. And I decided that it was time for me to at least the Marine Corps. My wife, wasn't thrilled about the idea, but she was very supportive.

And so I went to MCRD San Diego I'm a Hollywood Marine. And then after that, I went to the school of infantry com Pendleton and I graduated as an old 3 51 a, which is an anti-tank assortment. But once I got to my unit, there were shortened machine gunners. So I was bawling told to learn the weapon system, you know, Hey, so here's the machine gun, they're your bodies, they'll fill you in.

And that's pretty much what happened. I picked up a secondary MOS and as the mys, I carried throughout my whole career in the Marine Corps. Once I once these charge it was time for me to actually renew my studies. And I graduated from the university San Francisco in California with a bachelor's in management information systems.

And I closer to graduating Pepperdine university with a master's of business. So that's pretty much in a nutshell, what my education has been like a professional track. It has been somewhat diverse as well. It wasn't a straight path into data science that will have been a Jack of all trades helpful stations, facility management, sales, mortgage, lending, insurance, financial planning, real estate, project management.

What have you? I have probably done it. But my first really truly data driven job was the first summary from title in USAA as a data analyst. And that's where I really got my feet wet in sequel and how to retrieve data and how to calculate how to formulate my own theories and, and, and hypothesis and test those.

So I started doing that there, and then I progressed. It as a quantitative business analyst, I Google cloud and I love the company. I loved the cloud. I had an amazing team. The cultural, the entire company was amazing, but given the time, you know that were living in California, then my wife and I have both hold full-time jobs just to actually live in the bay area which is quite pricey.

And raising a young family, you know, you, you seem to be quite a burden, you know, on or now our family we wanted to spend more time with our son and plus there was a spike in crime, homelessness, drugs, violence, all the things that come along with vice basically were occurring in the bay area at the time.

So we decided to move. It will be it would be better for us to move elsewhere. And that's how I landed the opportunity at enterprise. Where we're at right now. And the official title is a senior software analyst, which is sort of like a hybrid between a data scientist, business analyst and software engineer and project manager.

So I had to change hats throughout the day, depending on who I'm talking to when, and what problem am I trying to solve? And that role it's it gives me all my toes. Let me tell you that much. It's never a dull moment. And and it's fascinating, but it's quite demanding as well. So I'm actually enjoying it

[00:09:26] Ted Hallum: But well, before we go on I'd love to hear a little bit more. You're still, you're, you're pending graduation with your MSBA from Pepperdine later this year in the fall, right? Yes. So I'd love to hear a little bit before we move on to our, to the core of our episode about what your current experience is like with the MSBA there at Pepperdine.

[00:09:44] Erick Quintero: Well, it's an amazing school to begin with I encourage anybody who is considering pursuing a graduate degree to do their due diligence and do as much research as possible in understanding the culture of the school the culture of the company that they want to go into. So for example, if you know that you I'm just going to pick a Google as an example, you know, if, if there are people who are really desperate to get into, into the into the Fang industry, you know, Facebook, Amazon Google all those companies in the bay area.

So if your goal is to work in one of those companies, then probably try to figure out from where do those companies hire most of their employees in the areas that you want to go into. So once you figured that out, then do your own research on which of those schools provide the best programs that actually match your the goals that you want to pursue.

So Pepperdine actually had, aside from having a great reputation as being a great school of business, which that's one of the things I wanted to get more off, I understand. More of the technical things, but I wanted to get more domain knowledge. So I wanted a school to have more back on in business so I could solve those business problems.

Therefore I chose Pepperdine. Also. They had an amazing veterans program that actually helped me pay for my schooling. Plus they gave me an additional scholarship given the grace that I came from my undergrad. So that that's actually what sold the deal. Close the deal. Sorry. So I decided to go to paper nine there, and each of what I learned as I was researching all the schools who use go with these programs, very very, very, very, a lot on their emphasis that they put.

Either some of them are more technical. Some of them are more managerial driven, you know? So if you want to be a manager, you take these school. Cause it shows you not so much in depth of the technical stuff. Not so much. Hands-on. Machine learning or programming itself, but how to leverage that, to solve the business problem.

So you can manage it to you more professionals that will do that for you. I, I found Pepperdine to be a good, those two points cause I wanted to go more in depth and you can get as much in depth as you want because the faculty is very, very engaging and willing to, to provide that to you. So understanding more of the optimization courses, you know, cause they do have a Mason optimization courses there.

And try to realize that most of the machine learning problems that you will face are ultimately optimization problems. You know, what are you optimizing for? Or you want to increase revenue or you want to reduce expenses. So you want to increase the number of people that look at your website by giving timeframe.

So you, when you frame those questions seem towards sensation problems it makes it easy to solve and you get a good definition of what the angle that you're looking for is. And so that's what I learned a lot in in these program. I highly recommend it once again. It's not for everybody. It depends on what you want to focus on.

So that's in a nutshell, what I have experienced on Pepperdine.

[00:13:05] Ted Hallum: Well, it sounds like I remember you talking about when you did your first bachelor's degree back Nicaragua, you said that your, you did that particular engineering degree because you knew that would give you the quantitative ability to solve business problems.

So it sounds to me like. That was an incredibly insightful way to start. I don't know. How old were you when you started that first bachelor's degree? I was 18. So, so as a young, 18 year old, you had that kind of vision and then, you know, you came to the United States and then you had this interlude in the military, and then after that, you kind of picked up your original vision and you're carrying it to its logical conclusion with this MSBA degree.

So that's awesome.

[00:13:45] Erick Quintero: Yeah. You know the other, you mentioned it. I hadn't, I hadn't made that connection myself, but I guess I'm still fighting the same fight and I started up when I was 18.

[00:13:53] Ted Hallum: Yeah. You're going to, you're going to go into solve a lot of quantitative business problems.

So we, we said earlier that we're, we were headed towards a core topic of talking about PTSD. Now I think most of the folks in the audience of this particular podcast are at least familiar with PTSD, but for anyone who might not be, if you could just quickly summarize what PTSD is and what causes it.

[00:14:17] Erick Quintero: Right. So let us start by stating the obvious I I'm not by any means or claims either imply or expressed. I am not a, an expert, right? I'm not an expert on PTSD. I'm not an expert on human behavior or anything of that sort. And I never claimed to be an expert. Right. And I don't claim to actually. I'm not able to actually diagnose anybody with PTSD or, or tell you what causes the condition, you know, for the most part all I can do is to speak about my own experience.

So for a data guide, this is a terrible position to be in because our currency is empirical data, not anecdotal evidence. And that's what I'm basing this talk on my own experience, my anecdotal evidence. But in the associates, actually, whatever I share can help a brother. Then I'm willing to actually talk about myself and what you like for me.

So going back to the question, what causes PCC well, PTSD, as you said, is post-traumatic stress disorder. And as the name implies anyone who suffers a trauma can actually develop PTSD. It doesn't matter what kind of trauma it is. It doesn't matter the intensity of the trauma altogether. So if it's People who generally suffer from PTSD, for example it is not uncommon for rape victims to actually suffer from PTSD or people who have experienced a natural disaster.

Growing up in Nicaragua it's right in the ring of fire, you know, so ways where two tectonic plates actually meet. So there are constant earthquakes and tremors and we have lots of volcanoes also, which add to the tectonic movement. And a lot of times, you know, we we did experience major earthquakes, you know, while I lived there many times over and people were traumatized by some of these very strong ones.

So. It became a part of the life for most of us, but some people were traumatized by this and they refuse to go back into the house after a big tremor. And they would actually count on parts. You know, they will develop their own homeless place, even though they, they did have a home to go back to, they refuse to go in doors for fear of replicas.

So those are examples. So PTSDs now imagine, imagine making a cocktail. So all the terrible things online can experience life death that throw your friends accidents fire, natural disasters, you pool all this in a blender and the resulting cocktail will be war. So war is one of the major things that caused PTSD for all of us.

So at war, you will find suffering death, the fear for yourself and for your body's lives. The F the flight and fight ex reflex is always on, you know, so. But we don't flee because our friends depend on us. So I remember doing studies on the Titanic data of, and trying to find a correlation of between the people that survived.

And those who died in one of the correlations are most of the people who actually should have survived for example, young ladies. So all women got into light belts before anybody else. So these were young ladies and some, and yet they died. Why did they die in the correlation was because they were not traveling alone.

They were traveling with family members and they would rather die than they had the family member go out, put down by themselves. And that's generally what happens between us when we're in, in a firefight, I will not let any member of my platoon, any member of my fire squad go down without me being there.

Even if he takes my own life, I will stand by them. And that's what actually forces us to say. So my personal definition of, and PTSD and it's pretty much an over simplification. Okay. So PTSD is when a person suffers from a traumatic event and they aren't able to turn off the stress. The cost there was caused by the traumatic event, even after the event is over.

So you're driving a bike, you know, you, you, you get hit by a car and you're constantly feeling that stress right at the moment before the car hit you. Right? When, when you were, when you realized that you were in trouble and you're able to turn that off, that is pretty much what PTSD is in a nutshell.

[00:19:00] Ted Hallum: So, you know, you made a great point. Neither of us are healthcare professionals. Where are the story that you're going to hear in this podcast episode is absolutely not a substitute for any advice from your healthcare provider. But with that being said, I think that you, you particularly, you know, because of your own personal experience have information to convey, that's a value to any of our listeners who might also either be grappling with it.

And we're going to get into this, or maybe, maybe you are dealing with challenges of PTSD and you don't even know it because oftentimes PTSD goes undiagnosed. But having said that, I think that the definition you provided is perfect for, from the layman's perspective, it really gives a good multifaceted understanding of what PTSD.

Practically is and what causes it both for you, you know, you did a good job of summarizing both for combat veterans and for other people in the general population that suffer from it as well. So at, at this point, I would love to the extent that you're comfortable, if you would mind sharing about your own experience as you mentioned earlier.

[00:20:19] Erick Quintero: Yeah, no, I don't mind at all. Well let me rephrase that. I do, I will share what I can but since this podcast, you know, it's about bats and data and how to break pretty much into the industry, how to get a first job, you know, into data science. I like to share a beat up difficulties as well that we might face if we are suffering from PTSD and, and how to overcome those difficulties.

So, as I mentioned, you know, I actually put school on hold while I joined the Marine Corps. And I decided to do my studies when I was discharged. So what I did is I went to class on the first day of the semester and the problem wasn't nearly immediately, I, I realized that something was wrong. Okay. My, my heart was racing.

I was overwhelmed with anxiety. My hands were shaking. I was sweaty. I felt overwhelmed being in a room with a bunch of strangers. You know, all my senses were in an alert. So I just couldn't sit there and longer. I quickly spoke with instructor, you know, and let them know that we'll be excusing myself and even the class for that night.

But please don't take me off the roster. I wanted to continue the following class session. I sent it to see what the back of the room, see if that would help, you know, on edX. You're going to help much. I was going to looking at the windows scanning for threats, both inside and outside of the room and my grade software, you know?

And this is just for what I'm talking about. This is only about school. There were several behaviors that you actually see, you know, in your daily life that are not normal. I was constantly scanning for threats. She knows who came if I was driving road rage, you know, was, was the norm, you know I would always be giving the finger to everybody and shouting and president the horn and, and taking risks, you know, driving recklessly pretty much on the freeways.

So it was one of those really idiot drivers as well. And I was not that before So I will be constantly as well, scanning for avenues of approach, trying to put my, my hand in the enemy's head, you know, what would be a good place to actually see the numbers and then try to think, okay, if I were I'm wishing here, how would I get out of this situation?

How would I protect my loved ones that are with me in the car? So all those things were always racing through my mind and that is not normal behavior. And, but that was my reality. That was my new normal, because I was constantly doing that through an employment. So they see in, you know, those behaviors.

It's, it's definitely one of the totals my personal life as well, you know with my, my wife and the rest of the family, I was distant. I was highly irritable. I would jump from zero to a hundred, you know, and get into somebodies face. And the problem is sometimes at someone's face that you got on to is actually somebody you loved.

And they don't understand that and they don't get you. They want you to talk. You can not talk how they going to understand somehow you don't understand why this is happening. Why are you being sort of your rumble? All they asked was for you to do something right, and you're not on their face.

So it's, it's hard to understand. And for the most part you don't get it. And, but something that you said that actually struggling with is sometimes it goes on diagnosed or on recognized. And I think that shenanigans, we do recognize it. We know that something's not right. We just don't know how to deal with it.

We just never experienced this before. Never overcame these difficulties. So aside from that, I think one of the big problems that we have in addressing the problem with PTSD is our own mentality of our own warrior mentality. If you will we are all fighting, man. We are the best, you know, and, and we, we consider PTSD to be terrible, even at this point.

We don't want to be that guy, you know, that the hopeless he's talking about, look at that guy, you know, he's, he's, he's weird or he can hack it. You know, he, he, he's something able to adapt whatever the case may be.

So all those, any type of bull durability is considered to be a hindrance against the warrior ethos and finish, not the case. Warriors are also human beings. Okay. So from, from PTSD doesn't mean that you are less of a warrior. You don't, it means that you have seen a lot and your mind is still trying to process all these things and then you will need help.

And for the most part, we're good and getting each other help in the experience, you know, somebody needs help. I dunno, doing pull-ups then members, selfies, fire team are going to get together and they're going to train with him, you know, not just doing more pull-ups but doing some managers, I'm sorry, some exercises that will actually straighten, you know, the, the muscles that are engaged will doing pull ups and we don't let each other down.

So we always try to be better for each other. Yet when it comes to PTSD, all of that goes out the window. Now, now you are the outcast. Now you are the guy who's freaking. No strong enough to hack it. So we got to start addressing, you know, the whole change, the mentality of it's. Okay. You know, it's people who were shocked shell during world war one, they were in cowards.

They were just, they'd just been through it for so long that they needed help to actually come out. So what helped me, you know, it's

when I realized that I have problems I needed support and I didn't know route call or what to do will help me, was my wife. I mentioned that she and I had only been married one month before I missed in the Marine Corps. So after four years in the Marines, she, she had a stuck around for, for a lot of the bad things that have.

And then she never gave up on me on the terrible, the things, several things that came after. I, I was discharged, you know, she was always supporting and we have, we have that type of support in all their family members and friends. But for the most part, we don't think that they understand because many ways we don't understand ourselves, whether it was the source of the problem is so, but she never gave up and she stopped through me and I put her through hell for it.

And, but in the end, you know, no doubt that she actually saved my life. So one of the things that also helped me out was as Marines, you know, the, somebody I heard somewhere that they're actually only two branches of the military. The army and the Navy, because the air force he's incorporation in the Marine Corps is a cult.

So being a, a proper being a proper Colt man I refer back to the things that I learned in Marines, you know, and, and the Marine Corps leadership principles actually were really good to address this problem. So the first person will the first Marine Corps leaders, the principle is know yourself at six self improvement.

Well, I know this behavior is not normal for me, so I need to seek self-improvement what can I do to actually address this issue? Well, I can not do it. So I don't even understand the issue is that's why I need to reach out to somebody who does. And that means acknowledging my vulnerability. You know, when you know yourself in , there's a deficiency that you have in this case.

I didn't know how to deal with my own man with my own mind. So I had to actually swallow my pride. And go to somebody and a therapist who I show he was able to diagnose my problems. So, and I carried on, you know, throughout the whole the whole 11 Marine Corps principles. So each one of them actually emphasizing what the actions that I should take to actually overcome these difficulties that I was in.

So give you more instant form for example, I'm before. And that means when you're in a platoon, you let them know what is happening, what the next steps are. This is the plan. This is how we're going to do it. These are, these are the things that we will need. These are the gear that we have less, this problem solved right now.

Let's make sure that we have everything we need, and if we need something else, then we'll go and ask for help for somebody from the Sergeant or whoever. And. You know, you, you keep the information flowing from within the ranks from the opportunity to shape all the way down through their private, you know, and everybody understand what the task is and what is the next step in the plan.

And the same goes for PTSE, you know? Yeah. We do family. Once you, once you realize that, that you have the issue, what's going to be your support system. Okay. It's going to be your family. Okay. Inform what's happening. So I noticed that every time that you asked me to do this, you know, I, I go off and I don't want to go off when you are, you know, you're my mom, you're my dad and my wife.

I love you. I don't want to do that. And I'm breathing these, these gap between us. And so what I'm asking you is if you asked, if you will have to ask me for that, asking in this different way, you know, where it's not going to make me explode. And this is a state HRM and my treatment right now, right now, I'm supposed to be.

Taking it easy or I'm supposed to be taking this medications, please help me out and be sure that I don't forget. So, and, and, and it's hard, it's hard to do. It's hard to actually look into, into oneself, you know, realize that you have these problems that you never deal with before. And that now you, the only way that you can find some, find some rest is through self-medication, you know, so we all go through that.

I was drinking a lot, you know, cause mainly because I couldn't sleep. So the only time I could sleep is when I was loaded. And and I wasn't paying, you know no physically, but I was tired. I was, I was mentally in pain and people don't understand. And when you were in pain, you're going to be irritable.

So beetle feeds on each other. He said, we should start. So. You know, the one thing leads to another and another and another. And and that also makes you feel that you need to distance yourself from those people that care for you because you don't want to hurt them. You know, if, if you know that every time they ask you that they talked to you, you're going to bark at them.

Then you sort of like become withdrawn from that, from those people. And and that's how even worse problems to have now, because now you have no support system. So that's, that's about everything I can tell you about my experience, you know from PTSD.

[00:32:24] Ted Hallum: You've just been incredibly transparent with us about what I'm sure was.

One of the most challenging, if not the most challenging chapters of your life. And I know you did that out of concern and care and compassion for our fellow veterans in data science and machine learning who are listening to this who may be, who may have their own ongoing battle with, with PTSD. So I really appreciate that.

I think that a lot of times these things aren't talked about enough and that's part of the reason why people suffer more than they should in silence. Because like you said, they feel like they're weak or they feel like they can't be honest about what's going on or that it's somehow gonna reflect poorly upon themselves if they're if they come to grips with it and ask for treatment or whatever the case may be.

And so I just think it's incredibly powerful for someone to see you on the trajectory that you're on and going to be the, the, what you are already in an incredible role. You said it's a mixture of software engineer or business analyst and data scientist. You know, you're, you're thriving, your family is thriving and that's because you took the steps to deal with this in a healthy way.

And so I, I, I, I hope with all my heart, anybody who's listening to this who hasn't dealt with with discuss situation, a healthy way that you'll inspire them and that they'll, you know, get on their own trajectory to achieve their best life as we were talking about earlier. So, you know, obviously you mentioned how a combat environment kind of is the perfect recipe to end up having PTSD.

But you know, from what I understand, I guess there are. Natural risk factors, maybe even some genetic risk factors that can make people have a predisposition towards developing PTSD. Can, can you speak to that at all? I'm trying to establish things that people can use as a barometer when they look at themselves to know where the, if they, if they think, you know, maybe they're you, you mentioned some people they may be technically undiagnosed, but they probably know there's something wrong.

I'm trying to help kind of bring things to light. Whereas people are thinking about themselves. They can say, oh man, that kind of sounds like me. Oh, that kind of sounds like me. Maybe I haven't been as honest with myself as I should have been, you know, maybe I am struggling with PTSD. That's that's kind of where I'm going with this.

[00:35:01] Erick Quintero: Yeah. I believe there have been several studies about why PTSD affects from people more than others. You said, is it a predisposition or genetic, as you said? I think those studies found the evidence to be inconclusive. Now I might be wrong once again, I'm not an expert. But what I have learned is that PTSD is very personal illness.

You know, the way it affects me will be very different than way to affect anybody else. And that is, that is because any event that might actually cause me to have PTSD may leave some other people totally on SCADE, you know, guys in the same squad that leave the exact experience you know, and it was a very traumatic experience, but some of them, they never developed PTSD while others have great difficulty going back or readjust into normal life.

So as we mentioned, any, any real trauma can cause PTSD, but as far as I know, there's no. No way to know how an individual will be affected or how it will affect any given person giving any traits.

[00:36:15] Ted Hallum: Now as you were, were going through.

And I really, I need to, to help with the vocabulary. Is it best to talk about PTSD in terms of managing it or in terms of like just some people have a complete recovery? What's the best frame of reference for them,

[00:36:35] Erick Quintero: you know, That's a really, really, really super interesting question. That could think of it is. And going back to why, why some people are unscathed. I am and PTSD. I would say the PTSD actually, and this is my own personal point of view. Once again, I'm not a clinician, you know, that studies human behavior is I actually group or bean people into different categories of PTSD.

So the third dose, you know, who go through a traumatic event and they come out of escape on escape. They are, I don't know if they're mentally strong or something in the brain is able to actually realize that the, that the traumatic situation is over. And it's now time to, to go back to the settler. Then there's all these, this other group of people who actually will develop PTSD and, and I've been those into three different groups.

So there will be those who actually suffer from PTSD, but are able to function normally, except, you know, then on location, there will be something that triggered a flashback, you know? Wow. That will suffer a nightmare. You know, they generally find an outlet and activity to calm them down. They find a hobby, you know, if you will ice actually able to calm them down.

There's these guys in my platoon. He, he found his outlet. You know, one of the things that you do after you get out of the military and especially, you know, if you are suffering from some form of PTSD is trying to you miss them that thrilled, you know, or they, they used to have, you know, with the group of, of friends, the opportun, you always searching for something, you know, there's, there's nothing more treating them blowing shit up, right.

And, and surviving, you know, being nearly killed and doing all this crappy things, right. There are great periods of board on you between, right. But for those small periods of time where your adrenaline is pumping, you know, and you're returning fire and, and, and coordinating and, and developing command and control a situation, there's nothing like it.

And so you are. You're always seeking death wheel. You're always trying to find it after you get out, you miss it, you get addicted to it. And in my personal case, for example, was taking on necessarily risk while driving. I will be speeding left and right. I was always, I would be phrasing, you know, with strangers doing all kinds of stupid things.

But this friend of mine, well, actually he, he was a smart one. He, he started with skydiving and he did a soft actually he became skydiving instructor, you know? So that was his outlet. That's what actually he found that actually fulfill that thrill that he was seeking. So we need to have an outlet. We need to find something else, you know, that it's going to calm that stress and.

For him, he was skydiving for me now that I I'm able to address my my episodes better. It's been family, it's been faith, you know, it's believe it or not is it's coding in Python. I freaking love it. I lose track of it. So I, my wife will come in at two in the morning and I'm trying to solve a problem.

Right. And she would be like, Hey, are you coming to bed? I didn't realize it was two in the morning already. Right. And, and, and I go to bed and as soon as I close my eyes, I think of something else in that solution for that problem. And I get up and try to do it. So, but now I'm not stressing about. The nightmare that I had, I'm not stressing in my heart is no racing.

Food is my highest waste and force solution to a problem. Right? So trying to find out what it is that you can use to calm yourself down and change your mindset from that stress to something that you actually enjoy is very important in these process. So I mentioned, this is the first group of those people.

You know, people who suffer from PTSD, but able to function normally, except that sometimes they get some nightmares and and they find an outlet that actually helps them, you know, keep their mind occupied and something else. The second group of people are those who are able to function partially. So they're not able to fully integrate back.

And I will say that DC is the highest density of the population in coming out of the military. At least the highest number of cases that we here. I have people that fall into this category so they can carry out a normal life for the most part, but they only find relief when they are self-medicating, you know, when they do walk the halls or drugs or anything that will actually ease the pain that they're suffering inside.

The third group of people are those who actually cannot integrate back into normal society. They can not function well. And this goes back, you know, to sample that I gave earlier of those soldiers in the trenches in world war II the worst shell shock, you know, they, they, they were constantly shaking and eats.

They could not be integrated back into society unless they receive some, so medication from from physicians, you know, from no psychiatrists, yes. Psychiatrists and psychologists, psychiatrists, the guys that can prescribe the good stuff. So those people need a lot of help. And I don't, for the most part, the best thing that anybody can hope for is to be able to move from the last two groups into the first group.

You are never going to be rate of PTSD. You were, there is something in you already, you will just manage it. You will just try to manage those treaters and how you react to it. You start to see things from a different perspective, you know, try to analyze the event in a different light. And things get better, but he takes time, you know, it's it's definitely not a, not a sprint is, is a marathon.

You know, you have to adjust your life. You started like living with diabetes, you know, you have to make changes in your diet. You have to make changes in the way that you find things. So creating a plan definitely is something very important when dealing with PTSD and having, you know, those goals directly explicit in that plan.

And these could be as easy as you know, maybe just getting out of bed. That's a, that's a small goal and it will be a small victory. If you get out of bed and make that bag, you know, just go outside and look at the sun, you know, that might be something, some of them leave behind shutter blinds, you know, and, and, and they don't, they, they haven't heart difficulty integrating back.

So small steps with proper help above all proper help. He's used a way that we move from being number three, to being number two, to being number one, being number one is where we all want to be. I, I damn he's meeting years, you know, and, and most nights for me are good nights. Ultimately there's there is the nightmare, you know, that wakes me up in the middle and I'm not able to go back to bed or I suffer from insomnia.

I don't know, maybe. Once every two months and these are things what I do when I say I'm from Sonia, I want to go out on a patrol, you know, that's, that's that's force instinct, you know, give them a rifle going on patrol. And now I came up through that easily dive. But you know, I can find something else to do that will actually put my mind at ease.

You know, I could read a book, I could start breaking down the homework. I could start trying to solve that darn problem that I've been trying to solve until 2:00 AM, you know? So you cannot fully get rid of the PTSD. All you can do is manage it. And I thought, I think that's the answer to your question.

[00:45:45] Ted Hallum: Absolutely. So you mentioned basically people can be impacted along a spectrum that ranges from a mild case, all the way to a very difficult, severe case. And like what you said there at the very end, that it's most likely a matter of not full recovery, but you know, a lifelong journey of managing the PTSD, whether no matter where they fall along that spectrum.

So from your own experience what were some of the most effective tools, techniques or resources for, or that management that you found?

[00:46:29] Erick Quintero: Well, there are many techniques. So PKZ is not just there's nothing that he's a cookie cutter, you know, that these will work every time. But there are many thing needs to know that are available and.

Finding the best one for each individual would actually depend on the engagement that they have with a therapist. So the first thing a bubble is Lupron hill. And once you find help, you know, then there are many things that your therapist can do with you to help you, you know, get better with PTSD.

So as far as techniques, you know, there are breathing techniques to help you calm yourself down, you know, when, when you're in a stress situation. But once again, it's all to minus you never, you never cure over your traumas, you know so therapeutic reading thing needs some of the inmates another one that's called cognitive progression therapies, which basically enables you to actually find a different perspective on, on what happened on that day.

You know, so looking at things what would be a good example? So instead of thinking, Y Y Y D D S person, you know, in my platoon got hit and not me, I was right next to them, you know he's actually changing that mentality from that Y to now that I, that that person, you know, is no longer with us. I get to live my life in their honor.

You know, it gives you a purpose. Why did this happen? Because now you get to do it for them. So it's trying to change that mentality. So the, the horrible event still happened and he's still with you, but now you see it from a different point. And all these also, you know, like individuals in the third category that I, that I made up would actually need also some type of medication to help deal with with the stress.

So one of the best, one of the best things, you know, that I have done for myself. And once again, all I can talk is that all I can do is speak about my own experience is a plan. I say they mentioned, you know, a plan will need to have specific goals. Those small diff small victories will actually help you improve yourself steam, you know, so you're not feeling.

So segregated, you know, and, and being in contact locked down in your room where nobody can see you, not even, you didn't even let sunlight in sometimes exercise. Now I don't, I didn't follow these for many years, but but exercising is very important because regular exercise is actually impact what's it called serotonin levels in your brain.

So raising the levels of also of 17 boost your mood, you know, you actually feel better after you exercise and, and, and improves your overall sense of wellbeing. It can improve your APO, your appetite as well. Cause you lose appetite when you're depressed. You can help you, it can help to a sleep cycle.

So exercise is, is really something. Regular exercise will live in healthy balance. You know, the levels of stress hormones, like adrenaline in your system which is crucial, you know, for the fight and flight response that we talked about. But if you keep those high levels of adrenaline in your system can be damaging for your health.

Get a hobby. You know, for me, it was learned Python. I, I had a terrible experience when I was studying abroad. In my engineering degree, we had to learn programming and I'm showing how old am and heater, but we had to learn programming, tubal, Pascal, which is not a user-friendly programming language.

He didn't even, even have row numbers. So you didn't know where the problem lay it didn't give you, you didn't know if the, if there was a, what would the issue may have been, you know, in the scene tasks. So you had to go line by line, rereading everything, you know, your entire program. And I, I barely passed that class.

I mean, if 69 was failing in 70 was passing, I passed week 69.99. Right. So we round it up. That's why I passed that class and I promised myself, I would never touch a computer if I had to go programming again. And that wasn't till I found Python Python to me was love at first hello world, you know?

So it, it was, it was amazing. And now I could do math in Python. What shut up? No way I can program the computer to do my math homework for me. Awesome. And now, now that's my main source of income. You know, I do tons of programming Python. So that is one of the, one of the hobbies, you know, that I. I found that became my bread and butter.

So it took, it took a while for me to actually within those goals, you know, I had go back to school and she, she took a while, you know, to be comfortable again in the classroom. Nowadays with the proliferation of, of online courses, you know, you don't have to worry about suffering from anxiety when you're in the classroom.

Cause you know, you're sitting here in your house and you don't have to have your, your video on. But you see the rest of the people in your class and you interact with the professor and they're able to ask questions. So you were able to get the knowledge without all the stress of actually being in a room full of strangers.

So getting the plan, you know, if you plan to go back to school, You know, if you can all go see it in the classroom and do it online, you know, now now more than ever, you have so many tools that will help you do this. Many of them are free. So take advantage of it. And it's all about making the decision and making the plan and making those small victories on a daily base.

I still make my bed every time I get up, he doesn't matter the time, you know, cause that's a small victory. Now I know when I come back, my baby, it's going to be made you know, how nice and comfortable basically to sleep regardless if it is at two in the morning. So setting up the plan, I think it's it's very important.

[00:53:23] Ted Hallum: So that, that was an awesome survey of the range of things that people can do in terms of tools and techniques to, to help with managing PTSD. I, I should, I should specific explicitly say that the driving force behind me asking that question wasn't that someone would be able to hear your answer and then necessarily implement those tools or techniques later today or after they hear this episode in their life, you know, that will be something they'll work out, like you said, with their treatment provider.

But I think it's just a natural human it's part of our human nature, a fear of the unknown. Right. So I think for some people, my suspicion is that some people who know that something's wrong, maybe they think it's PTSD. They're not sure. They, but they haven't sought out treatment because they don't know what treatment will entail.

And they're just scared of like, maybe they won't like it. Maybe they don't want, want to do it, you know, or whatever. And so I think by hearing you talk about. Some of the tools and techniques look like that kind of removes that shroud of the unknown and kind of pulls the curtain back so people can have a peak of, okay, if I come to grips with this, what am I actually gonna have to do?

And, and, you know, a lot of that stuff, I think, whereas people might've felt super intimidated. They probably heard you say that list and they think, oh, those things, those are things I could do. You know, you mentioned working out and physical fitness, those are all of us veterans. Those are things we know, or we may not be doing it now we're out of the service, but we know that those things are good for our physical and mental health and our emotional health already.

We've experienced that in the past. It's a, it's a matter of re mentally revisiting that and being like, wow, that was good for me. I remember that was good for me. And so that, that, that thought process is also the driving factor behind the next question that I'm about to ask you. So for people who I think that they might be suffering from PTSD and after they listen to this episode, maybe there maybe that's like a catalyst for them to try to, to move forward and start to manage it better.

If they want to get it diagnosed. And I should also say that one of my following questions will be about specifically about the VA and VA benefits and stuff like that. But I would imagine that if you want to take advantage of VA benefits, you probably have to have like an official diagnosis.

So if somebody suspects they're suffering from PTSD, one of the first steps for them especially to be able to take advantage of some of the benefits that are out there for them is probably to get a formal diagnosis. What does that process look like?

[00:56:12] Erick Quintero: Well, the first, the first step would actually be to schedule a meeting with veterans, a veteran center near you, you know, and talk to an agent to open a case for you. So. This

[00:56:25] Ted Hallum: is not like your primary care physician or a specialist. This is a VA

[00:56:29] Erick Quintero: rep. Well, yeah, as soon as, as soon as we frame it, you know, onto what to do, you, you can go to a physician, you know, and express all the different things that you're doing depending on, on, on what health insurance you have.

Right. So the physician will actually refer you to somebody and it's still, you know, a medical issue, you know? But you can take that if you want to your VA and say, Hey, you know, my physician says that, that I I'm suffering for PTSD, and I want to talk to somebody here. Or what I did actually is I, I went into my, my local veterans center, you know, and I talked to the agent, opened up the case and they gave me the information to, I should just schedule a meeting with somebody at the VA hospital, you know, and, and.

And this was actually a shrink, you know, at the VA and and they assessed me, you know, and, and, and they, that's what actually opened the door for me to, to to get diagnosed. So you can do it there, there are many ways to do it. You know, it's just a, a take your pick, you know, if you're more comfortable going directly to the VA then yeah.

Do that local contact office. I mean, might XL actually now works with the VA and I believe he is in Texas or Georgia. I don't recall exactly which one, but but definitely if anybody is interested, you know, and, and, and. I can put you in contact with him. I don't work at the VA. I don't have any information from them, you know but he might be able to help.

And he, he was a Marine as well. I mean, it was my Xcel. So he, he he's there to help a brother. You know, he's not one of those government bureaucrats, you know, that all the care about he was trying to make sure that they don't pay benefits. You know, this is a guy who was being there. He was being the trenches.

Don't everything gives a Mustang, meaning that he was first in an eastbound, they became an officer. So he understand everything from near the old perspectives. So I'll be, yeah, I'll pass along your information to him and I'll give you his information. You can contact him directly But what I did personally is I, I went straight to the VA

[00:58:48] Ted Hallum: now, and I think you were alluding to this in your answer, but that sounds like if, if people take that path that you took, since it's at the VA hospital, it, even if they don't have.

Health insurance, they could still get treatment if they took that same route that you took, correct?

[00:59:03] Erick Quintero: Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, this, this, this is part of the VA, you know, it's like if you get hurt while in service, you know everything is in your service record and you go to the VA and open up a plane saying, Hey, I got heard, you know, and now I cannot, I don't know.

That's another case, you know, that I do have open. I, I, I got, I got injured, you know, my knees were messed up and I left the Marines, typically infantry and WEA told me, yeah, you know, you were messed up, you know? So they, they give you treatment for that. And they might even change the Serbia degrading, you know, for you.

[00:59:40] Ted Hallum: Now, continuing with that vein of pulling back the curtain on the unknown and just letting people know if they pursue formal treatment, you know what that. What w what the, what will be in store. So if they go to the VA or to their physician, whatever the case may be, and they, you know, they're just completely honest and they say, this is what's going on.

These are the things I've been dealing with. And then either the VA or their physician lays out a treatment plan. And I, I know from what you've already said, that that there's not going to be because there's not a uniform type of PTSD. There's not going to be a uniform treatment, but I guess when you think about the most typical scenario or the, or the average PTSD suffer, what would be the the common denominators of a treatment plan or a formal treatment plan plan for PTSD?

[01:00:42] Erick Quintero: So once we come to that circle again, where PTSD is a very personal illness, right?

And as I mentioned, though, was there is different techniques that you work directly with your with your therapist to actually manage the PTSD events that they, that you have in.

But it would be a personalized treatment just as this is a personalized illness. The treatment would also be very personalized and it will be the best treatment for you. Now, what I want to stress, you know, is that the therapy plan are not orders. You know, your, your physician is not your CEO.

They're not just going to tell you, you have to do this, you know, and they, they say you orders and March, you know? No, that's not the case. So it's, it's a lot of feedback that you're providing to your therapist. And I didn't know this either, you know? I thought there, they're just gonna tell me to do the shit, you know?

No, they, they actually want your input. So what do you think about doing this once you've done it, did you like it or not? So you should tell you therapies, you know, if something is not working out for you so if you have any concerns about the treatment, you share that with them. You know, your, your therapist is a, is a professional, but he's, he's, wouldn't nothing, you know, if he doesn't find a treatment that is uniquely to that particular case.

So they are constantly evaluating both the treatment and, and how, how well you can adhere to that treatment plan and and whether or not it's actually providing any results. So the typical approach is, again, once you are diagnosed, then you can start working with your therapist and he's not there to tell you what to do.

He's there to help you find what works best for you. So he will provide ideas that you will then implement and realize whether or not it's working. And if it's not working, you let him know, Hey idiot. You know, you can do your work better than you. But for the most part, they, they are very spot on, you know, on, on a trust in your personality.

And they will not be able to perform their job though, unless you open up and tell them exactly what it is that is going on with you. So there's no typical treatment Or the typical treatment will be actually determined, you know, once, once you're in a treatment with your therapist.

[01:03:20] Ted Hallum: Well, you know, for the purposes of why I asked that question, I, I think that I hope that for, for a listener who might've been intimidated about going and seeking out treatment, that, that, that, that your answer provides them with some peace of mind, because what you've described is that it's flexible.

It's personalized that if something's not working, then they'll just change course and find something that works better. And I think for, for a lot of people, if they're concerned about the unknown concerned that they're not going to be comfortable or not want to do the type of treatment that they're told to do, if they realize.

It's not like locked in stone and that it can be custom tailored to them and their situation. Then that's probably going to make them a lot more comfortable with seeking out treatment and pursuing it. So that's awesome. Now I mentioned earlier, I was going to ask you a question about specifically about the about VA benefits.

So I've heard horror stories about people trying to take advantage of their VA benefits and they hit mountains of red tape and some people are able to eventually make progress. Other people, you know, just kind of get stuck in and they get mired up and then they just abandoned the effort. So for people who are suffering from PTSD and they would like to leverage their VA benefits to get help if they run into trouble and, and they're not making the progress that they need to make towards getting help.

Are there any organizations or resources. Specifically focus on helping people leverage their VA benefits for the purpose of getting PTSD treatment.

[01:05:02] Erick Quintero: That's a great question. They are different organizations that I know that help veterans submit claims to the VA. The reason why I got involved with those organizations was for, as I mentioned, I got hurt. My knees were completely destroyed. So I submitted a claim. I got evaluated. And I, I, you know, luckily it was in my service record, you know, that I got. And this is from the beginning, you know, I got actually, I, I sustained multiple injuries, you know, while in bootcamp and then in a salon and everything that works, you know during the whole four years in the Marines.

So it's in my service record. And so then it cannot dispute it and they said, yeah, well we know you got hurt, but we don't think you got hurt enough. So we're going to give you a 0% disability. So, and that's, that's the first step that's getting the foot in the door, them acknowledging that you have a problem.

And that was static for years in my case, you know, and it wasn't until somebody hurt hurt me talking about the fact that I'm still 0% disability after so many years that he referred me to her organization and And they started the case, you know, and they present the case to the VA and, and I was, my waiting went up, that being said, I do believe that there is some disability benefits connected with the PTSD diagnosis. And that might be one of the reasons why the VA might actually be dragging their feet. Because it means that you, if you are determined to, or, or if you have technos to have PTSD, then, then definitely there will be a disability rating.

I don't know if it's enough to actually pay you disability income. But definitely anything that actually crunched your disability rating through the VA is something they want to try to avoid. But what I do recommend though, is actually talk to the vets in your area.

If there's a event center, you know, that you can go and talk to, I know there were a few at centers, you know, where I lived in before I moved to Missouri that I went to in California. You know, when you find these old warriors from, from Korea, Vietnam, you know, the Gulf war at best of something more than 91 and they all hang around and they're all sharing stories.

And it's an amazing, amazing group of people. You know, those people there and they know they're there, they're more aware of, of what groups are available to help. So if you're able to actually talk to your local vets through that, they, they know that hoodies and all the organizations that are around to assist

[01:08:00] Ted Hallum: and their latest war stories are about their battles with the VA.

Huh? There

[01:08:04] Erick Quintero: you go. That's it.

[01:08:07] Ted Hallum: Well, so, you know, as a podcast host, sometimes it's really easy for me to have a guest on and think I've asked all the smart questions, you know, only to later find out that I've failed to ask about or mention something that's crucially important. So for my last PTSD related question, I would just want to ask you, what is it that I haven't asked or haven't mentioned that I definitely should have and just haven't so far,

[01:08:33] Erick Quintero: I, I think that all these questions have been very insightful. I think that definitely we covered a lot of PTSD, but again, these, these podcasts, these catered towards veterans breaking into the technology, data science and data and machine learning world.

So I Going to say, there are also many groups to assist veterans who want to get into a technical role, but lack that skills they start, they start helping the veterans about those skills. One of them was met in tech vet in tech, you know, and they, I, I got involved with them when I was working at Google and they were very good at actually finding position for vets who wanted to, to break into the industry.

I mean, I'm a grunt for crying out loud, you know but may find, you know, of us even crayons and Lincoln windows everywhere. So I'm not definitely the type of person that should be working with data science role. Yeah. We are all coachable. We all know that the mission comes first. So they, all these companies are looking for veterans that bring those leadership skills and, and spirit, spirit decor, and know how to work with small groups and know how to deal in small group dynamics and, and shoot the mission.

You know, having a mission centric mentality is invaluable for all these companies. And most civilians do not even know what the heck that means. So it doesn't matter your background in the military though. I was, once again, it was a grant that wasn't a machine gunner for crying out loud. You know, they send them when we get mad, we stuttered.

Th th th th th typically that's what we do, you know, when we get upset it's like rapid fire, right? So. We leverage those things that you learn in the military to actually breaking through, into the machine, into machine learning and data science world we can do in their groups that actually will help you as well.

Regardless whether or not you have PTSD. I think that we owe it to ourselves, you know, to actually do the best that we can. We never settled. We want to be the best. And that's one of the, that's why we joined. We want it to be the best and wanting to work with the best.

[01:10:59] Ted Hallum: Absolutely. Well, you know, Eric, you're in good company on this podcast because I don't think I've had a single guest come on the show and tell us, oh, I had a straightforward path into data science and machine learning.

It was all super logical, very, very linear. Not at all. Every guest I've had c'mon has said I had a super windy path. In most cases, they left the military and they didn't even know what data science was. They discovered that after their military career, I know that was certainly the case with me. But in every instance, even though they didn't have a linear path, even though they may have not known what data science was, when they ETS in the military, they're out there in data science or machine learning or, and machine learning, killing it, killing it every day, doing, doing awesome stuff.

So. You and all the other guests that have come onto the data canteen are an incredible inspiration. And that's why I do this podcast because I want other veterans who are, are maybe interested, or maybe they just find us in a Google search result or other, other people who are maybe still in the military.

And they're about to transition. Maybe they've never considered data science before. And I think they can hear a story like yours or some of our other guests that come on the show and they can discover one of the most fulfilling and exciting careers that they could possibly get in. Even though when you hear data science, they may, that may not sound exciting, especially if your background was as a machine gunner, but you know, you can attest it is, it is strangely a gratifying field to get into the, I guess it's the solving problems or, or making predictions with math, something about that.

It's just, it's it is quite.

[01:12:46] Erick Quintero: It is. And, and I, that's why I dimensioned, you know, one of the things that I now use as my thrill seeker activities, it's programming, you know, trying to find these things. And it's sort of like being a detective and out of all these sea of these order, you know, I find something, you know, the signaling, the noise, you know, there's this one thing, you know, that nobody started a high, found it, you know, and it's mine, and now I'm going to share with all you idiots.

And so it's, it's amazing.

[01:13:18] Ted Hallum: So as we start to wrap up, I want to come back to. Where you're going with data science and, and sort of what we've just been talking about hitting the last few seconds. So when it comes to data science and machine learning, the tools and the technologies that are out there what gets you excited?

What, what things are you passionate to, to buy books about right now, or to go do a Coursera course on

[01:13:44] Erick Quintero: Dude now, now when I get a chance to actually get my jumping to be Kevin, you know let's see, what am I super excited about? I'm super excited about the whole idea of quantum computers. To me, that is that's the future today, you know, I know is going to be years or decades before we have a functional, scalable computer, you know, that that we can S that we can work with, but just the whole notion of having to find a computer.

You know, instead of having zeroes and ones, the same zero could be at one at the same time. And it's going to reduce that gears of war, ground, meaning to just minutes of programming to find a solution that is amazing. You know, I love Python, as I mentioned before, you know I use Python and many industries use R programming rather than Python.

I am lucky enough that I'm in a company where we actually get to choose the tools that we want to use. And I want to use five then, cause he clicks better in my head. I understand R I work with are, you know, I, I. I can program any more places, but if I'm reading a program from someone else, or if I'm actually writing the program myself as well, you somehow clicks better.

And it also helps me when it comes to explaining it to other engineers or programmers, developers. What have you? Well, we are integrating this, it'll follow the same format w which is very difficult to do in R so those are the things that I get excited about. Definitely quantum computer and Python.

What else is going to be used five and four in the future?

[01:15:23] Ted Hallum: For what it's worth. I love Python too. I, I got started in high school actually with visual basic, and then later on in some undergraduate courses, I did Java and I enjoyed both of those languages. I haven't. Which I never I didn't you say you did pass Pascal

[01:15:42] Erick Quintero: tubal Invesco.

[01:15:44] Ted Hallum: Thankfully, I never had a bad experience like that. All of my programming experiences I would say were positive. But when I use Python for the first time, even though I had liked those other languages, I had liked visual basic when I was a kid. And I had liked Java that I did at the undergraduate level.

When I use Python years later, I thought, oh my God, this is everything that I've always liked about programming minus all the things that I used to not like about programming. The, you know, it's dynamically typed. It's just, I think I thought it's beautiful.

So I really resonated.

[01:16:20] Erick Quintero: You don't have to compile it. You don't have the, you know, you don't have to say my column at the end of every row. They find the variables at the Mo the beginning of the program before you call them. Yeah. It's a, you can use the, find the variables as you go along, you know, so it's amazing.

[01:16:37] Ted Hallum: Now, as far as your favorite data related podcast or book that you've consumed in the last year, what would you

[01:16:45] Erick Quintero: Books? Well, there's one book that actually is the one that got me started with old days. The book is called, competing on analytics and it's by Thomas Davenport. They've important. Tone was damn important in that.

And Jane Harris. So he actually opened up my eyes of what the world possibilities was for for analytics and business. I think that they do mention, like, for example the case of Moneyball in, in, in that book another one is a signal in the noise. This is when we're talking about signal noise.

So why so many people, you know, a full fail, why so many people fail, but others don't and I, that book it's by Nate silver, I think that was a great book to understanding how statistics is employed into stereotypes, into storytelling you know, and, and how to leverage the statistics for most, any arguments that you want to make.

a group one for understanding how data science can help solve business problems is data science for business by Tom Frost's faucet. I never say his name is F a w C E T T faucet. So that's, that's a great book data science for business podcasts, of course I got. I gotta be partial and say data contain, of course.

But aside from this, I I'm, I'm an avid podcast listener. I love about cost. That's go talk Python to me that that is more of a developer podcast, you know, but the content is solid and, and the things that you learned there can be applied to data science, interpret production environment, and docking containers or orchestration protocols, et cetera.

So I can say enough of, of banking to me. And that's what Michael Kennedy is the name of the podcaster. Super data science is another good one. I'm I actually changed some correspondence with Javier Oraca, who is the creator of the scatter plot. And they have also really good content.

And Javier also got his masters in business analytics, but he got it from UCI you know, university of California in Irvine. I happen to be also aside from almost finishing my master's at Pepperdine university. I'm also pursuing a professional certification in machine learning from UC Irvine as well.

So that's how he and I connected and, and we, we became very

[01:19:32] Ted Hallum: close. Now, is that that certification, is that offered through UC Irvine directly? Or is that through like one of the online learning platforms that are out?

[01:19:42] Erick Quintero: Well everything's online now, but they do offer it through the continuing education program online.

[01:19:51] Ted Hallum: Oh, I w I guess to clarify some universities offer certifications, like Encore Sarah now. So I didn't know if this was something you saw through Coursera or their website.

[01:20:01] Erick Quintero: This is directly through their words. I mean, your degree has nothing to do with anything else other than UCI. When you come out of there, you get your certificate from UCI in machine learning to have on, on also data science they have on predictive analytics.

They have listen to me, I'm making a plug for them. But they're really good everywhere you go. I mean, I have, I decided that even though I did have several different machine learning courses through Pepperdine as you mentioned, you know, that they, they, they were very theoretical and they solve like a specific line of problems.

I needed something that was more. Productionalize, you know, that actually will be a production machine learning problem that I'm trying to solve operational machine learning. If you will, you know, how to, how to deploy it, how to maintain it, how to revise it, how, and, and, and even though those were touch slightly in the master's program, I think that there was a big gap that I wanted to feel.

So that's why I pursued that certification that UCI

[01:21:19] Ted Hallum: that's huge. I'm super glad that you mentioned that particular resource because you're right. There's a ton of graduate school programs out there that will do a wonderful job teaching you the different ways to build models and you'll cover the classic statistical learning techniques.

And they'll probably even teach you the, the deep learning with artificial neural networks, but you can leave those programs. I've talked with even some of our prior podcast guests about how you can leave those programs. Under the impression that like you've built an awesome model and now you're done, you're nowhere near done.

Like there are some tremendous hurdles that you have to still overcome to get that model out into production. And then, you know, even then you're not done because right, the world's changed. You've built a pattern detector, but the world's a changing place. You've, you've trained that pattern detector to detect patterns and training data.

And that would be great if the world out into perpetuity was going to continue to exhibit the same patterns that were was in your training data, but that's not gonna be the case. So then you've got an entire monitoring effort that you have to do to make sure that that model is still performing. And when w when the performance inevitably begins to decline, then there's, you know maintenance that you have to do to, to re optimize your model for.

The new reality of the world. So, yeah, that's awesome. I think that's a great certification program. And we'll make sure that in the show notes to this episode, there's links to that as well as you, you've given us a ton of other resources .

So we'll make sure that we link to all of those for our listeners. I think the last thing to cover is that I can definitely imagine there being folks that want to reach out to you because they share your background, the Marine Corps, or because they feel like there's something you said about PTSD resonated with them and they just want to reach out to you to get advice on how to proceed.

Contact the VA, maybe they want to get in touch with your friend that you mentioned. There could be a billion reasons why people would want to get in touch with you. I've got your email address here listed underneath your video. But if there's any other preferred ways that people reach out to you definitely mentioned that now, so they'll know the best way to get in touch with you.

[01:23:38] Erick Quintero: Yeah, definitely. You can drop me a line there. However, I got to say, I I'm very active in LinkedIn and that's about, that's the extent of my footprint in social media. I do not have a Twitter. I did not have Facebook. I did away with all those who, and I realized that now we can go back 30 years to your past and say that you did something wrong and then try to get you that way.

So I'm no final that therefore I only keep the professional. That is the best way to contact me through LinkedIn. And if you, yeah, we can attach the link there. That'd be perfect. Just drop me a line. I'll get in touch.

[01:24:22] Ted Hallum: Absolutely. We will put a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes of this episode. So Eric, I'm so grateful that you came on and did this episode. I think that that, that this stands to help more people than we can probably even imagine. Going back to what I said earlier in the episode of the fact that you weren't just willing to come on this episode, you sought me out and took the initiative to come on and share from your experience to help other people.

I appreciate it. That's awesome.

[01:24:51] Erick Quintero: I'm glad to be here. I really hope that somebody find this useful. Very

[01:24:56] Ted Hallum: cool. All right, Eric, until next time we have on the show.

[01:25:00] Erick Quintero: Thank you so much.

[01:25:01] Ted Hallum: Thank you for joining me for this conversation with Eric Quintero as always until the next episode, did you clean data, low P values and Godspeed on your data journey?